Current Big W Dunlop shoes?

[David Morrison]

A few months ago, there used to be regular discussions of what Dunlop
footwear people were able to get from Big W for bushwalking. I think the
latest was Revolution.

Today I want into two Big Ws and there was nothing like Revolution. The
only "hiking" shoe was Kyoto which seemed to be not as well made (no
shaped insole, all suede outer, maybe not as much padding underfoot),
although the tread seemed a bit more aggressive. It was also $10 cheaper
($39).

The sizes were odd too. In the Revolution, size 11 was not quite big
enough for me. With the Kyoto, size 10 was plenty big enough.

I have wide feet, and felt the shoe a little narrow for my comfort.

Has anyone tried this shoe?

BTW, was intrigued to see that the KT26 and Volley now come in two
models. There is the standard model selling for around $26 (KT26), and
the steel toe cap model selling for around $45. Interestingly, the
industrial model seems much better made, with thicker sole and more
prominent tread.

Cheers

David

[Roger Caffin]

Post by David Morrison
A few months ago, there used to be regular discussions of what Dunlop
footwear people were able to get from Big W for bushwalking. I think the
latest was Revolution.

There was one after that, but it was a soggy cardboard disaster. Sad.

Post by David Morrison
The sizes were odd too. In the Revolution, size 11 was not quite big
enough for me. With the Kyoto, size 10 was plenty big enough.

The Rev was wrongly labelled for size. You did have to go UP one size -
exactly as you mention. Aberration.

Post by David Morrison
I have wide feet, and felt the shoe a little narrow for my comfort.
Has anyone tried this shoe?

Not me.
I'm running original KT-26s.

Post by David Morrison
BTW, was intrigued to see that the KT26 and Volley now come in two
models.

Actually, I think there are now THREE models of KTs! The originals, plus TWO
variants with kinky names. But they have the KT-26 sole pattern, even if
slightly distorted.
Dunno how the new ones go though.

Cheers
Roger Caffin

[Tim]

I'm onto my second pair of Revolution. I think they are great. Especially
as the second pair I got on sale for $20. I hope I can still get them
somewhere.

Post by Roger Caffin

Post by David Morrison
A few months ago, there used to be regular discussions of what Dunlop
footwear people were able to get from Big W for bushwalking. I think the
latest was Revolution.

There was one after that, but it was a soggy cardboard disaster. Sad.

Post by David Morrison
The sizes were odd too. In the Revolution, size 11 was not quite big
enough for me. With the Kyoto, size 10 was plenty big enough.

The Rev was wrongly labelled for size. You did have to go UP one size -
exactly as you mention. Aberration.

Post by David Morrison
I have wide feet, and felt the shoe a little narrow for my comfort.
Has anyone tried this shoe?

Not me.
I'm running original KT-26s.

Post by David Morrison
BTW, was intrigued to see that the KT26 and Volley now come in two
models.

Actually, I think there are now THREE models of KTs! The originals, plus TWO
variants with kinky names. But they have the KT-26 sole pattern, even if
slightly distorted.
Dunno how the new ones go though.
Cheers
Roger Caffin

[Garth Coghlan]

Post by Roger Caffin

Post by David Morrison
A few months ago, there used to be regular discussions of what Dunlop
footwear people were able to get from Big W for bushwalking. I think the
latest was Revolution.

There was one after that, but it was a soggy cardboard disaster. Sad.

My current walking shoes are from Target. They are the Dunlop Richo.
$39. The upper is quite good - seems fairly tough. The sole is much
the same as my sad Dunlop Beyonds - grid sole with cardboard
footbed/inner sole. I have only worn them a handful of days (granted,
they were hard days) and the sole is collapsing. Also, the pair weighs
1kg, which is way too heavy for my liking.

I think KT-26s would be good (light and solid sole) but they give me
blisters and seem to accentuate a knee problem I am working through (ITB).

Garth

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Garth

Post by Garth Coghlan
I think KT-26s would be good (light and solid sole) but they give me
blisters and seem to accentuate a knee problem I am working through (ITB).

I wonder - would it be worth the investment to try the next size up, with
thick socks?
In my experience - which used to be a bit painful when I stuffed up,
blisters usually meant the shoes were too small. This could lead to my
trying to compensate for the discomfort, and causing too much stress on some
knee ligaments.
2c.

Cheers
Roger Caffin

[David Morrison]

Post by Roger Caffin
Hi Garth

Post by Garth Coghlan
I think KT-26s would be good (light and solid sole) but they give me
blisters and seem to accentuate a knee problem I am working through (ITB).

I wonder - would it be worth the investment to try the next size up, with
thick socks?
In my experience - which used to be a bit painful when I stuffed up,
blisters usually meant the shoes were too small.

It's interesting you say this Roger. Conventional wisdom is usually that
shoes that are too big are the cause of blisters because they have room
to rub. Yet I have only ever had blisters with shoes that were not wide
enough for my feet. Bigger shoes with think socks have never given me
blisters.

Cheers

David

[Roger Caffin]

Post by David Morrison
It's interesting you say this Roger. Conventional wisdom is usually that
shoes that are too big are the cause of blisters because they have room
to rub. Yet I have only ever had blisters with shoes that were not wide
enough for my feet. Bigger shoes with think socks have never given me
blisters.

So much for conventional wisdom! :-)
Mind you, it *might* apply for stiff leather boots.

But blisters are caused by serious rubbing inside the tissues, and it is
hard to get that with loose *soft* footwear.

I'm not fussed what other people wear. I do note that the cutting edge of
gear developments are in the ultra-lighweight area, and shoes are going
through this as well.

Cheers
Roger Caffin

[Andrew Priest]

On Sun, 21 May 2006 13:02:34 +1000, "Roger Caffin"

Post by Roger Caffin
But blisters are caused by serious rubbing inside the tissues, and it is
hard to get that with loose *soft* footwear.

Related to this, I notice that one retailer here Perth is now selling
BodyGlide Skin Lubricant (see Rick's Owner Review at
http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Personal%20Hygiene/Toiletries/Bodyglide/Owner%20Review%20by%20Rick%20Allnutt/
) which is based on this concept of providing a lubricant to minismise
the effects of rubbing.

Rick is very impressed by BodyGlide. Am considering using it myself as
well.

Regards
Andrew

[Tamyka Bell]

Post by Andrew Priest
On Sun, 21 May 2006 13:02:34 +1000, "Roger Caffin"

Post by Roger Caffin
But blisters are caused by serious rubbing inside the tissues, and it is
hard to get that with loose *soft* footwear.

Related to this, I notice that one retailer here Perth is now selling
BodyGlide Skin Lubricant (see Rick's Owner Review at
http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Personal%20Hygiene/Toiletries/Bodyglide/Owner%20Review%20by%20Rick%20Allnutt/
) which is based on this concept of providing a lubricant to minismise
the effects of rubbing.
Rick is very impressed by BodyGlide. Am considering using it myself as
well.
Regards
Andrew

BodyGlide rocks and is what I used on my feet for the past few years. I
have also tried BlisterShield which is a very good powder, available
from http://www.seemerun.com.au/ . There has been extensive discussion
of these two products on CoolRunning http://www.coolrunning.com.au/
however most of the runners commenting, even trail runners, would be in
running style shoes.

Tam

[John Atkinson]

Post by Roger Caffin

Post by David Morrison
A few months ago, there used to be regular discussions of what Dunlop
footwear people were able to get from Big W for bushwalking. I think the
latest was Revolution.

There was one after that, but it was a soggy cardboard disaster. Sad.

My current walking shoes are from Target. They are the Dunlop Richo. $39.
The upper is quite good - seems fairly tough. The sole is much the same
as my sad Dunlop Beyonds - grid sole with cardboard footbed/inner sole. I
have only worn them a handful of days (granted, they were hard days) and
the sole is collapsing.

There's no doubt that those "grids" in the soles that many manufacturers use
are hopeless for serious walking. Since Dunlop seem to using them in some
of their models which are otherwise similar in construction and appearance
to their OK models, like Nugget and Revolution, people should take out the
inner sole in the shop and try to see or feel what's underneath before
wasting their money.

Also, the pair weighs 1kg, which is way too heavy for my liking.
I think KT-26s would be good (light and solid sole) but they give me
blisters and seem to accentuate a knee problem I am working through (ITB).

I've always hated KT-26s. Their last is much too straight for me, so my
heel rolls off on the outside and causes accelerated wear. And the
crossways ridge pattern on the soles is hopeless on steep rock. And the
exagerated cantilever soles are so wide you can't use them for sidling.
(The Nugget type of sole is a bit like this too, but much less so.)

Actually, I haven't worn a pair of KTs for decades, but I've no reason to
think they've changed at all for the better.

They'd be pretty good for straightforward road and track-bashing though, if
one's feet happened to be the right shape.

John.

[Roger Caffin]

Post by John Atkinson
I've always hated KT-26s. Their last is much too straight for me, so my
heel rolls off on the outside and causes accelerated wear. And the
crossways ridge pattern on the soles is hopeless on steep rock. And the
exagerated cantilever soles are so wide you can't use them for sidling.

Which goes to show how much individual opinions vary, doesn't it? What suits
one person doesn't suit another. Seems reasonable to me.

Yes, if you pronate (or reverse pronate or whatever) so your heels rotate
sideways, there is a problem and they may not suit you. They aren't really
meant for handling that.

I find the sole extremely effective on steep rock myself. Actually, I think
it's the carbon rubber, because they have as much grip on steep sandstone
when they are worn nearly flat. Yeah, I wear them OUT! Time to discard when
there is no tread left!

I also like them for sidling on steep soft ground: I find the cantilevered
edges function a bit like crampons sometimes. I can dig them in nicely.
Different folks, different feet.

Post by John Atkinson
Actually, I haven't worn a pair of KTs for decades, but I've no reason to
think they've changed at all for the better.

I think user skills count for a bit too. Or maybe user preferences.

Post by John Atkinson
They'd be pretty good for straightforward road and track-bashing though, if
one's feet happened to be the right shape.

Good for that too.
Also usable in the snow ... http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_Photos.htm
(but not really recommended!)

Cheers
Roger Caffin

[Terry Collins]

Yeah, I wear them OUT! Time to discard when there is no tread left!

Back when they were a tad more expensive, I had one pair resoled 6
(?) times. The bootmaker near SIT eventually refused to do them again {:-)

[David Morrison]

Post by Roger Caffin
I find the sole extremely effective on steep rock myself. Actually, I think
it's the carbon rubber, because they have as much grip on steep sandstone
when they are worn nearly flat. Yeah, I wear them OUT! Time to discard when
there is no tread left!
I also like them for sidling on steep soft ground: I find the cantilevered
edges function a bit like crampons sometimes. I can dig them in nicely.
Different folks, different feet.

I have worn KT26s and in the bush they are not too bad. However, on
lumpy surfaces (such as gravel roads), the sole is not stiff enough and
the rocks can be felt through it. I end up with fairly bruised feet.

Cheers

David

[John Atkinson]

Post by Roger Caffin

Post by John Atkinson
I've always hated KT-26s. Their last is much too straight for me, so my
heel rolls off on the outside and causes accelerated wear. And the
crossways ridge pattern on the soles is hopeless on steep rock. And the
exagerated cantilever soles are so wide you can't use them for sidling.

Which goes to show how much individual opinions vary, doesn't it? What suits
one person doesn't suit another. Seems reasonable to me.
Yes, if you pronate (or reverse pronate or whatever) so your heels rotate
sideways, there is a problem and they may not suit you. They aren't really
meant for handling that.

Nor are volleys. But volleys have a last that's the shape of the foot of
the average person (me, of course), so that doesn't happen at all with them.

Post by Roger Caffin
I find the sole extremely effective on steep rock myself. Actually, I think
it's the carbon rubber, because they have as much grip on steep sandstone
when they are worn nearly flat. Yeah, I wear them OUT! Time to discard when
there is no tread left!
I also like them for sidling on steep soft ground: I find the cantilevered
edges function a bit like crampons sometimes.

Well, I've done a bit of cramponing in my time, and I can't understand what
you're saying here at all. Crampons are exactly the opposite of KTs in just
about every respect:

Crampons are made as narrow as possible (a couple of cm narrower than tennis
shoes), so they can fit neatly on small holds in ice and rock, and so you
don't have to waste energy making great buckets of steps when you're on
comparatively soft snow.

Sidling on harder ground, you use French technique with crampons. French
technique with KT's would be an ideal way to go for a good long slide --
their sole pattern seems specially designed for this -- like mini side-on
skis.

Not to mention that crampons -- and the boots you wear them on -- are
intentionally made stiff. This is critical to using them the way they're
meant to be used.

Post by Roger Caffin
[On steep soft ground] I can dig them in nicely.

Sounds like you're a walking erosion machine.

Post by Roger Caffin
Different folks, different feet.

No doubt. Different heads too.

As far as this folk is concerned, volleys are still by far the best for
walking in the bush -- fairly narrow soles ideal for scrambling, thin soles
so you can feel what's underfoot (but not too thin), good grip, minimal
impact (except, arguably, on the button-grass plains of Tasmania, where they
tempt you to spring lightly from tussock to tussock, instead of slogging
through the knee-deep mud on the track like you're supposed to).

Nugget-style shoes are ideal for walking on tracks (which is not my thing, I
admit) -- longer life, more cushioning, more "protection", wider soles but
not TOO wide, not heavy or clunky.

I own a pair of Italian walking boots too. They're great for everyday wear
in town. I've never worn them in the bush, probably never will.

John

[Andrew Priest]

On Sun, 21 May 2006 02:10:27 GMT, "John Atkinson"

Post by John Atkinson

Post by Roger Caffin
[On steep soft ground] I can dig them in nicely.

Sounds like you're a walking erosion machine.

I am curious then as to how you walk on steep soft ground without
digging in? Do you have some amazing ability to "walk on water?"

Andrew

[John Atkinson]

Post by Andrew Priest

Post by John Atkinson

Post by Roger Caffin
[On steep soft ground] I can dig them in nicely.

Sounds like you're a walking erosion machine.

I am curious then as to how you walk on steep soft ground without
digging in?

By looking where I put my feet? By using the natural footholds that are
nearly always there? By not being afraid to use my hands -- or even my
bum -- when it's appropriate?

I don't know where you're from, but here in eastern Australia (where both
Roger and I do most of our walking) kicking footholds or digging your feet
in when traversing steep loose ground off-track is hardly ever the fastest
or most energy-efficient way to proceed. I've never walked with Roger, but
I'd be surprised if he really does it at all often, whatever he says.

Of course, there are places in the world where it is the appropriate
technique, even the only one. The last time I can remember using it is a
decade or so ago, in the Kaimanawa and Ruapehu NPs, on steep
semi-consolidated volcanic ash.

John.

[Roger Caffin]

Post by John Atkinson
I don't know where you're from, but here in eastern Australia (where both
Roger and I do most of our walking) kicking footholds or digging your feet
in when traversing steep loose ground off-track is hardly ever the fastest
or most energy-efficient way to proceed. I've never walked with Roger, but
I'd be surprised if he really does it at all often, whatever he says.

I didn't say I **kicked** footholds. What I said was:
"I also like them for sidling on steep soft ground: I find the cantilevered
edges function a bit like crampons sometimes. I can dig them in nicely."

I do this with a bent sole, which makes the front part sufficiently stiff
that the edges don't curl. And I tilt my foot inwards to the slope slightly
as well. I only do this on very steep loose stuff, so it doesn't happen all
that often. But it does mean I can use the KTs in places where a flat foot
would slide down the hill.

Does this make for slow progress? To be sure - but I only do it in places
where there seems no other way of traversing the terrain. So it's faster
than not moving :-)
Oftimes I can find a faint animal pad to use - that gives enough traction
with a flat sole.

Does this cause extra eroson? I doubt it very much. Those slopes are often
eroding rapidly anyhow - which is why they are so loose in the first place,
and the marks left by the KTs are very slight. I would have left much bigger
marks with heavy boots (which I used to wear so many years ago). I suspect
sliding down the hill would cause MORE erosion.

Ah, the finer points of traceless walking ...

Cheers
Roger Caffin

[Andrew Priest]

On Mon, 22 May 2006 01:48:12 GMT, "John Atkinson"

Post by John Atkinson

Post by Andrew Priest

Post by John Atkinson

Post by Roger Caffin
[On steep soft ground] I can dig them in nicely.

Sounds like you're a walking erosion machine.

I am curious then as to how you walk on steep soft ground without
digging in?

By looking where I put my feet? By using the natural footholds that are
nearly always there? By not being afraid to use my hands -- or even my
bum -- when it's appropriate?

With due respect John, I also adopt a pretty similar approach to Roger
.... I don't see the need to go kicking holes into the ground.

Regards
Andrew

[Trevor_S]

Garth Coghlan <***@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in news:446dc8ff$0$17548$***@un-2park-reader-01.sydney.pipenetworks.com
.au:

<snip>

Post by Garth Coghlan
My current walking shoes are from Target. They are the Dunlop Richo.
$39. The upper is quite good - seems fairly tough. The sole is much
the same as my sad Dunlop Beyonds - grid sole with cardboard
footbed/inner sole. I have only worn them a handful of days (granted,
they were hard days) and the sole is collapsing.

Not sure what model Dunlop I had (sourced from K-Mart) ? I left them in
Perth last week when I was there, after coming back from Cape Le Grande NP,
the grid innner sole support had collapsed :( ened up with a sore knee,
even after compensating by trying to build the grid back up again with
packing.

I picked up a pair of TEVA "adventure" shoes on an excellent runout special
at Harbour City in Perth before I left, only about twice the price of the
Dunlops but they look the part, they arent; on the TEVE website, so no
doubt a old model but no paper inner sole nor shitty grid support, time
will tell if they work as well as they look. Pretty disappointed in the
life of the Dunlops, a few short walks only.

[Terry Collins]

Post by David Morrison
Today I want into two Big Ws and there was nothing like Revolution.

I've stopped going. Last trip I managed to find an older person with a
clue and they said they have no controll what they get. They just get
given a pallet and put it on the shelves.

[Robert Green]

Post by Terry Collins

Post by David Morrison
Today I want into two Big Ws and there was nothing like Revolution.

I've stopped going. Last trip I managed to find an older person with a
clue and they said they have no controll what they get. They just get
given a pallet and put it on the shelves.

Yes. I was interested ibn the debate over KT26's and Dunlop Volleys.

The best that I have found are Rivers Joggers Hike and Bike. They have
an excellent grip and about a month ago I wore them in some early snow
in KNP. I was dodging around the snowdrifts between Cesjacks and
Mawsons, but eventually could dodge them no longer so started walking
through the drifts in snow up to the knees. I was expecting to get
cold and wet feet, but not a bit of it. The joggers were fine.

I have wondered what joggers are like in mud. Are gaiters necessary in
these conditions and, if so, is it about this time that one changes up
to light weight boots so as to avoid carrying gaiters?

[Roger Caffin]

Post by Robert Green
I have wondered what joggers are like in mud.

I tried KT-26s in France, and found that on muddy alpine cow tracks they
just didn't grip. I had to change to a light approach shoe with a stiffer
sole. Once the sole is stiff they work fine.
After all, boots don't offer anything more.

Post by Robert Green
Are gaiters necessary in these conditions

They keep the mud out of my socks. Very good.

Post by Robert Green
and, if so, is it about this time that one changes up
to light weight boots so as to avoid carrying gaiters?

We NEVER change into boots!

Cheers
Roger Caffin
www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/

[David Morrison]

Post by Robert Green
The best that I have found are Rivers Joggers Hike and Bike. They have
an excellent grip and about a month ago I wore them in some early snow
in KNP. I was dodging around the snowdrifts between Cesjacks and
Mawsons, but eventually could dodge them no longer so started walking
through the drifts in snow up to the knees. I was expecting to get
cold and wet feet, but not a bit of it. The joggers were fine.

Thanks for the tip. I went in to a Rivers store today and they look
quite well made. There are lots of styles, most with cardboard under the
inner sole, and others with a fabric structure. Some have a very strong
rubber insole while others are somewhat thinner. The moral - look at the
individual shoes to see how well they might suit you.

Even better, at the moment Rivers shoes are being discounted by $20 at
most Rivers stores, but much more at their Clearance Stores for exactly
the same product although in a limited range of sizes.

I bought a pair for $39.95 and will see how they go.

Cheers

David

[Robert Green]

Post by David Morrison
Thanks for the tip. I went in to a Rivers store today and they look
quite well made. There are lots of styles, most with cardboard under the
inner sole, and others with a fabric structure. Some have a very strong
rubber insole while others are somewhat thinner. The moral - look at the
individual shoes to see how well they might suit you.
Even better, at the moment Rivers shoes are being discounted by $20 at
most Rivers stores, but much more at their Clearance Stores for exactly
the same product although in a limited range of sizes.
I bought a pair for $39.95 and will see how they go.

David

After you've tried the Rivers why not give a report on this site.

Immediately after your last posting Josh wrote in to say that something
was rubbish and it looked like he said that the Rivers were rubbish
when in fact he was referring to the KT 26's.

I found the Rivers good and am on my second pair. Next December I
will do the Tasmanian South Coast Track (again) and see how they go in
the mud. They are excellent on rock. It looks like they can be bought
at the Rivers superstores at $39.95 and for more like $70 at the
regular Rivers stores.

Regards

Robert

[Josh]

Post by David Morrison
Has anyone tried this shoe?

I'm wearing a pair of them now. They're totally useless, mine are about
4 months old and ready for the bin. The soles have fallen apart, the
glue has come unstuck at various key points, and the inner sole has
deteriorated so much that it's broken into small chunks and fallen down
inside the hollow sole making it very uncomfortable to walk. I've stuck
bits of cardboard in the heels to try and get some wear out of them.
I've worn them 5 days a week since I got them, but only walk about a
kilometer a day in them and they still look brand new, they're just
falling apart. I know $40 isn't much to pay for a pair of shoes, but I
was expecting a bit more life out of them...

Josh